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Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

linda — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:02:37 -0000

We as followers of Christ do not need to speak our on words concerning this matter. We let the Lord of Host speak for us, It has been written in the book of Deuteronomy, as well as other places in the the Word. Just read it!
It is no wonder that we see the world going to hell in a handbasket. We must stand up for righteous and pray against unrighteous.
1 Corinthians 6: 9 says- "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God......"within this passage, homosexuals are listed as the unrighteous. It is not for us to judge, God will be the judge and if it is the desire of the homosexual to be excluded from the kingdom of God, that is their choice. 1 Cor 5:5 speaks about the destruction of the flesh. That the sexual offender will be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh (physical affliction or even physical death). we have seen evidence of this. I bear witness to the fact that this is unrighteous, but there is hope in the Lord, as written in the spoken Word. We do not hate the sinner, we hate the sin. "Judge not, least you be judged. But if you judge, judge righteously." I pray for this land and the healing of it. We as a nation have taken God out of the picture. We took Him out of the schools, we took Him out of our laws. He has gone from many churches. We are becoming a lost nation and the land is being destroyed. We need to pray for the land and the people who have control over it. Satan has put blinders on us. The choice is yours. Heaven or Hell. My choice is clear, what about you?

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

tippy2 — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:32:26 -0000

I am an atheist and think that the Christian author of this is completely right. It's good to know that there are prudent Christians who are more concerned about accepting and love, as opposed to judging and righteousness.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

statel — Fri, 01 May 2009 21:00:00 -0000

Thank you for your comment! I whole heartily stand in agreement with what you said! I do believe that we are all sinners deserving of hell! I also believe that we are saved through grace and through the mercy of GOD! I would never set that gift aside! I know that we have all sinned and that Jesus is the only holly one. And I do read my bible every day and I read it and ask for the understanding! I also ask questions. And through my STUDY of Romans I see that there are two main issues that it deals with (along with a slew of others!). 1.) Sin and that there is punishment for being in and of it! 2. The Amazing salvation through Christ, (Gift). So as we read through out the Bible we have to remember that there are sinners and there are Christians. Sinners are those who don’t know the Lord, and they sin, for it is there nature to sin! They are not yet covered by the grace of God, they are still worthy of death, for it says that the wedges of sin is death (Romans6:23).

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

one — Fri, 01 May 2009 16:50:36 -0000

To the person trying to site Romans please get out your bible.

Romans 3:10-18
"as it is written: "there is no one righteous, not even one;there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Please anyone who is going to quote the bible get out your bible out first. No one is without sin.

I didn't see people getting concerned about the world going up in flames when divorce became legal. Open your bible to the new testament and look at how many times it talks about divorce in the first five chapters. Not homosexuality, divorce.

Here is another quote for you,"there is only one true judge and that's God, so chill and let my father do his job." TLC

Peace.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

chanabery — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:51:11 -0000

Sorry if it sounded like I was scolding anyone participating in this blog. I didn't mean to direct the "pious Christian" comment to anyone here! I just meant it as a general comment that I have observed in the Christian community. I appreciate everyone's comments and opinions and think this has been a great blog to follow. I just hear so much judgement aimed at homosexuals by Christians when in my opinion, loving on homosexuals as Christians would be more Christ-like. We can accept and love them without accepting their lifestyle. I would like to encourage us as Christians to lean into homosexuals with love rather than with a judgemental finger pointed at them telling them that they had better change or go to hell. I don't know about you, but when I was deep in my sinful life prior to becoming a Christian, the last thing I would listen to was someone telling me how wrong I was. Jesus hung out with the worst sinners and loved them. When I turned my life over to Christ, I wanted to change my sinful ways and lost my desire for some of my old behaviors/attititudes, etc. Matthew 7:3

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Levi_State — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:40:51 -0000

But the difference is that we know that this is sin and how harmful it can be to a persons spiritual life! So again a i state: "we have to love the person and hate the sin!" and through our love relationship with them we can hopefully draw them to the LORD! Also, there are other Christians that i know that do not want to legalize this, because they are afraid that it could possibly open a new can of worms! (Ex: bestiality - legal, more than one spouse - legal, not to say that it will happen, but if we start to tamper with the deff. of marriage then it will be hard to say where to cut it off!) So i am sorry if i came off as a horrible homophobic radical right Christian, but I’m looking at the bible and seeing in Romans that God says that there are consequences for those who do the sin and those who tolerate or allow it to be come ! I call you blessed and hope to hear back form you! Thanks again, and God bless you and your family!

(ps my two brothers are gay as well so i know how you feel, i hear form them all the time, i know what they are feeling, bc they tell me, so we are kind of in the same boat)

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Levi_State — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:40:34 -0000

thank you for your comment! i want to first off say sorry if i came across as a "pious" Christian! I will try to better articulate my feelings, that i may not have done that well in the first blog! I agree with you with my whole heart, i too feel that we need to show the homosexual world that there are some Christians in this world that Love them and will help them in their struggles, but at the same time letting them know that we do not agree with the sin in their lives!, Not trying to say that i am perfect, because i am not in any way (striving to be though) shape or form. I know that god looks at all sin at the same...SIN!

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

shanepschulte — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:20:21 -0000

This entire conversation is incredibly wonderful. The thing that gives me the greatest pride in being and American is our ability to debate tough issues and find ways to move forward in this great experiment. Remember, Democracy was an experiment. One we've proven to be worthwhile. It also give me great comfort to know that fellow Christians really do try to follow Christ and his teachings. Justin, thank you for providing this avenue to have these important conversations.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

chanabery — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:25:14 -0000

I am a conservative, wholehearted, Jesus follower. I also have a 20-something son who is gay. I get very frustrated with my Christian brothers and sisters and churches for alienating the homosexual population. We as human beings cannot change homosexuals into heterosexuals. Our goal should be to allow them to see Christ in us and pray that they give their hearts to Christ. God can change hearts and lives. If we alienate the homosexual population, how will they ever meet the Jesus that we susposedly live our lives for. Shouldn't that be our goal. We need to examine our own hearts and motives for our behaviors towards this group of people that God loves as much as he loves pious Christians.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Levi_state — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:16:54 -0000

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. So we see that in verse 28 that God gave them over to their way, just like I was saying, then in verse 32 that sin is punishable by death and so are those who are lackadaisical and allow it to happen, so I just wanted to say I do and do not agree with the way that Christians as a whole are handling this occasion, please tell me what you think!!

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

levi_state — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:14:33 -0000

Also God tells us to be salt and light in the darkness in the world, we can see that God destroyed a whole city (Sodom and Gomorrah) because they chose to let the sin of homosexuality corrupt their ways, God had to destroy it, now I’m not saying that god is going to destroy the United states of America, however it should be a red flag that shows us that this something that God looks at with distaste. Not only does God have harsh words for those who commit in this “sin” He also has a warning for those of us who allow it to take place, those of us who say nothing about it, we just say, we’ll just love on them and we’ll live our lives and they’ll live theirs, and in the end everything will be ok. Look at what god says in Romans 1: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Levi_State — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:12:49 -0000

–John 13:35… so we see that Jesus wants us to love all people, no matter what, however he does not expect us to accept their sin! I believe that god loves the people, however he hates the sin; just like with me, he loves me as His son, but hates the sins that I commit! We as the Christian body have to figure out a way in order to communicate this with the gay and lesbian body! True there are those who do ridiculous things that make the Christians look bad, however it is up to us to walk with integrity, and show them that we are not all “homosexual haters”, it is up to us, the ones with enough common sense to say, “Hey this is why I don’t agree with you…”; instead of being rude and inconsiderate! At the same time I believe that we have to take a stand for what is right! For far too long the Christian body has been stagnate, we have let the evil come to a head, and now we don’t like it! I believe that America is reaping what it has sown all these years, we forget about God, and now he could be giving us over (not saying that He is, but it is one possibility) …

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Levi_State — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:11:48 -0000

I have read all of your replies and I have to say that I agree to a certain point! True I believe that we are all created equal, and true I do not believe that we should alienate anyone or show distaste toward them! I believe that we should do like what Justin mentioned and reflect on that acronym “WWJD, or WDJD”, I am quite sure that Jesus would show love toward them. He said by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Justin Wise — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:21:45 -0000

Ben

I hesitate to interact with your comment, but I don't want others to be confused on where I stand. I believe in the biblical perspective of marriage and have stated that numerous times not only here, but in other blogs I write as well. "Male and female he created them." I believe sexual intimacy is to be enjoyed only inside the freedom of a marriage between a man and a woman. I hope I wasn't unclear.

In your opinion, what have I said that is unbiblical in any way ("humanist", as you claim)?

Furthermore, what do you consider to be a "real Christian perspective"?

I find it telling that the article you cited ends with the heading, "Winning the Debate". In my experience, people who have as strong a reaction as you usually aren't interested in doing much listening; they simply want to "win" the argument. I hope you prove me wrong.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Susan — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:46:33 -0000

Well that much may be true, yes Dan.

I apologize for pushing you over the edge, but truly it's the media that has been wrong in how they are wording it. I've read a lot of comments and posts all over the Internet though saying that the judges have made this legal or made it a law. But that's not the case. Judges don't make laws. It makes me sad that people have completely forgotten Jr. High social studies and it also makes me sad that people spend so much time complaining about our government, but clearly fail to understand how it works.

The point I was trying to make is that no matter how you feel about the ruling, it's not the judges who deserve to be vilified for it. They did their job - to interpret the constitution and that's it.

And I'm not saying the end result is not legal gay marriage...clearly it is. But the Iowa Constitution's been around for a long time. The judges haven't changed anything, they just clarified it.

The judges were specific though in saying that this ruling in no way changes marriages performed in churches, as they recognize the right of the churches to perform marriages as they have always done. Thus, my sacrament remains unchanged.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Dan Cramer — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:02:54 -0000

Wow, Susan. I have been watching this post all week, contemplating whether or not to weigh in, and you just pushed me over the edge. Every scrap of media I have read, heard, or seen over the last few days has proudly pronounced that gay marriage is now legal in Iowa. Regardless of how you dissect the judiciary decision, you will have a hard time convincing any one that the end result is not legal gay marriage. However, you are correct that they did not define marriage, all they did was to say that the legislatures current definition was unconstitutional. So in reality, according to the Iowa Supreme Court, we have no definition of marriage whatsoever, and that causes me great concern, as it should all of us.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Ben Anderson — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:59:41 -0000

Your article is really lame and uninformed. Here's a real Christian perspective - not a humanist perspective that you are cloaking as Christianity:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0411bt.asp

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Susan — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:42:12 -0000

Dani, this is just a nitpicky thing, but it's important to realize the judges here didn't legalize anything. They just said that the legislative ban was in violation of the constitution and thus struck down the ban. The judges here did not make a moral pronouncement, they didn't decide anything about gay marriage other than to say that ban was unconstitutional.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

brodie — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:20:27 -0000

well said Dan.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

dani — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:49:03 -0000

well, like my statement above says... "Though homosexuality is a sin and we cannot protect the sinner from the wrath of hell, we must also love the sinner as god loved us. All can fall short of the glory of god and can be saved through the grace of God." I never classified homosexuality as being different than any other sin anyone else commits. Through the grace of god, all of our sins were on that cross, including homosexuality. however, i wouldn't just stand by and not let the person know that they are engaging in a life of sin...in a tactful way of course. I wouldn't stand by and openly allow this activity. Much like I wouldn't allow adultry or anything else of that nature. Thus it would have been hard for me to make the same decision that the Supreme Court made. I wouldn't have been able to legalize adultry either. I hope that clarifies the confusion.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

dave eickelberg — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:30:49 -0000

What about a homosexul who is also a Christian?

How do we respond to them?

Are they also subject to the "wrath of hell?"

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

dani — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:57:58 -0000

Love thy neighbor as thyself...yet rebuke the sinner. Though the church is taught to love we are also told to correct with love. We can pray for all sinners, ourselves, so that when the time comes we are saved. We are not supposed to accept sin, jesus didn't accept sin, he died for our sins so that we could all enter the kingdom of heaven. Though homosexuality is a sin and we cannot protect the sinner from the wrath of hell, we must also love the sinner as god loved us. All can fall short of the glory of god and can be saved through the grace of God. That is just my two cents worth...

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Justin Wise — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:49:51 -0000

What does this even mean?

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Sam Mahlstadt — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:41:59 -0000

This will undoubtedly have most churches across Iowa up in arms and utterly deflated. Here is what I hope doesn't happen: I hope our eyes remain on Christ and not our legislators. I hope our trust and faith I'd unwaivered by any political move. I hope Jesus is seen in this time through his people, and we walk in love. We must walk in love. Period. Not after we secure our rights. The man we follow was stripped of his rights, who do we think we are to secure our rights before we follow him? Grace and peace.

Re: A Christian Responds to the Iowa Gay Marriage Ruling

Paige — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:22:03 -0000

Dan,
I want to thank you for this post. While I, myself, am not Christian, I do defend those I know when people act them for the bigotous comments of others (those that Justin was addressing!) I know many compassionate, caring Christian who do live in the stead of their Savoir; they are my friends and I respect their views.
Your comments, and Justin's, remind of the movie "Godspell". It did such a great job of showing Jesus' own gospel of love and tolerance for fellow man.
I hope that your mindframe is contagious and that more people under the umbrella of Christianity echo your sentiments.
Thank you!