Sad. Predictable. And yet glorious when God shines his light of truth. Polarization just means the good get better and the bad get worse and when the light shines it shows those who love the light and those who love the darkness.
Erik Ullestad
· 4 months ago
Do you think passing the resolutions will be cause more division within the denomination, or less?
Initially, my sense has been that passing the resolutions will lead to schism. However, if a majority of ELCA Lutherans are in favor of the resolutions, wouldn't that mean less division? It's hard to predict...just curious to know your thoughts.
Thanks for continuing to follow what's going on at the Churchwide Assembly!
Justin Wise
· 4 months ago
"Do you think passing the resolutions will be cause more division within the denomination, or less?" I think the answer to that is already apparent! Look in the media, the churches, the pulpits.
I'm not sure that the issue is majority vs. minority. If the majority is 50% + 1, than that leaves 49% + 99 who are in disagreement. Is this technically the majority? Yes. Is it practically the majority? I remain unconvinced.
If we discern spiritual truths by the majority, then this Jesus thing never would have gotten off the ground. There is a spiritual dynamic at work here that I'm afraid is being washed over with a veneer of civil religion.
It's like the lotto, "You can't win if you don't play." I love following the assembly because I can hear/read/see things with my own eyes. Too many people form opinions on things they know not!
yooper1714
· 4 months ago
By far one of the most disappointing steps that the ELCA can take by affirming a sin. Sin is like a cancer it kills from within. If we don't think the ELCA won't die from within, then you are just fooling yourself.
Randy S
· 4 months ago
You might want to double check the votes from last night. I am not certain, but I thought that one of the votes late yesterdan means that CWA will NOT be required to pass all 4 motions in order??
Justin Wise
· 4 months ago
I'll double-check that. I want to make sure what I'm writing is accurate. Thanks for the eye–I was watching the whole night and didn't catch that!
Sam Mahlstadt
· 4 months ago
I think you are on to something when you say this might bring an end to the ELCA. I think for sure that this will be one of the final yearly gatherings for the denomination in this capacity. For sure division will reign once this is voted on. Very sad. Praying for the ELCA, its leaders and God's children who are serving within the denomination. God will shine through, but we tend to make it harder with our division. Pray for unity in the ELCA and the Church at large. Thanks for posting on this.
Erik Ullestad
· 4 months ago
Sam - I think the ELCA will continue to exist as a smaller branch of Lutheranism than its current 4.6 million member body. I think there are many churches - including the one where Justin works - that will be dissatisfied with the approval of the 4 resolutions, but will remain members of the ELCA. Other congregations (my guess is 50-60) will join the several dozen churches that have already left in the past 2 years. This whole issue boils down to a disagreement about the interpretation / treatment of Scripture. I pray that conversation will continue long after the Friday vote.
Stephen Jensen
· 4 months ago
Great news! I agree that it will not be the end of the ELCA. I don't find it sad that the ELCA chooses the path of love. It would be sad if they chose the path against love just to make some people happy.
Justin Wise
· 4 months ago
Stephen–what do you define as "the path of love"? In other words, how is the ELCA choosing the path of love in this situation?
Jesse Phillips
· 4 months ago
I'm kinda glad if a mainline denom demises. It seems to me, from the mainline denom folks I've read/followed and spoken to, they've largely rejected the bible as authoritative and the exclusivity of salvation thru Jesus, in general (yes, sorry this is horribly general, but it's been my consistent experience with mainliners).
So, if the denom does demise, perhaps that's a good thing (or a God thing?). Why would God continue to support a denomination that doesn't really believe in Him or what He's said in the bible?
I personally feel that denominations (and I guess specifically leaders or churches) that don't teach/lead consistent with scripture are leading people astray, and if that is the case they're doing a TON of damage to the Kingdom. I can think of several examples.
Now we obviously will disagree on whether they're leading anyone astray -but if they are, I hope we'd agree it would be better for them not to exist. (better for a millstone to be hung around their neck, eh?)
All Comments
Initially, my sense has been that passing the resolutions will lead to schism. However, if a majority of ELCA Lutherans are in favor of the resolutions, wouldn't that mean less division? It's hard to predict...just curious to know your thoughts.
Thanks for continuing to follow what's going on at the Churchwide Assembly!
I'm not sure that the issue is majority vs. minority. If the majority is 50% + 1, than that leaves 49% + 99 who are in disagreement. Is this technically the majority? Yes. Is it practically the majority? I remain unconvinced.
If we discern spiritual truths by the majority, then this Jesus thing never would have gotten off the ground. There is a spiritual dynamic at work here that I'm afraid is being washed over with a veneer of civil religion.
It's like the lotto, "You can't win if you don't play." I love following the assembly because I can hear/read/see things with my own eyes. Too many people form opinions on things they know not!
So, if the denom does demise, perhaps that's a good thing (or a God thing?). Why would God continue to support a denomination that doesn't really believe in Him or what He's said in the bible?
I personally feel that denominations (and I guess specifically leaders or churches) that don't teach/lead consistent with scripture are leading people astray, and if that is the case they're doing a TON of damage to the Kingdom. I can think of several examples.
Now we obviously will disagree on whether they're leading anyone astray -but if they are, I hope we'd agree it would be better for them not to exist. (better for a millstone to be hung around their neck, eh?)