Well this is bound to happen when being a Christ follower means nothing more to some people than, "Going to church on Sunday."
Justin Wise
· 5 months ago
But how do you begin to communicate that to a culture that largely believes:
Going to church on Sunday = Being a Christian. Putting my kids in Sunday School (or baptizing them as an infant, etc.) = They will go to heaven.
Jay
· 5 months ago
Hey, you're the Pastor...
:-)
But seriously, it has come to largely from the pulpit -- from Pastors that are not concerned about speaking serious truth to their congregation even if it means 'insulting' some so much that they leave the church. James MacDonald said something in his study we just concluded that is so true. He said, "There's friction in truth." If you speak truth, some people are going to get upset.
I think we have a lot of churches across the country that are on fragile ground and the Pastors are concerned about 'rocking the boat' so they avoid those times when people need to be told, "Just because you come to church every Sunday does not mean you're going to spend eternity in Heaven."
Not everybody is going to be reached. Not everybody is going to listen. But that's to be expected. There will be those who of course, will listen. And there will be life change.
yooper1714
· 5 months ago
Justin, yet another liberal way of putting the church....haha just kidding.
You are right on with this. I remember reading some research that funding in churches adults vs. children was 3:1, sometimes 5:1 in other churches. Yet, the research showed that churches that put the time and finances into well run children's programs had a higher retention rate of children in the long run.
The other piece of research (and I don't remember where these were from so forgive me if I am wrong) but the Church of England did research on why young people were not staying in church, the result? The Church of England doesn't believe in Sunday school programs. Generations grew up without any training and then did not want to follow a traditional pattern like their parents.
I agree that parents need to do a better job in discipling but many do not have the tools for these things and churches have not created good programs to come alongside parents to give them the tools. Add on overworked Sunday workers because people don't volunteer and you have a major problem across the board.
Good stuff.
Dave
· 5 months ago
Our local chuch (www.tworiversdm.com) has adopted a new model for Sunday School.
Recognizing that many parents view Sunday school as the one time in the week when their kids learn about God, we knew we needed a change. Now, when parents show up on Sunday mornings they are given the lesson for the morning. The parents then teach their own kids in Sunday school and are supplied all the materials for it. Parents don't have to be a biblical scholar to teach these lessons, but if they really are not comfortable with it, they may sit with another family for a few weeks until they are comfortable.
The hope is that what happens in Sunday School every week will be a catalyst for parents to talk about and teach their kids more about Jesus throughout the week.
I'll let you know how it works out for us in 15 years when the kids are grown up...
Dave Sandell
· 5 months ago
I got my hands on a book by Wess Stafford called "Too Small to Ignore" that makes a very compelling case to make children and youth ministry the #1 priority of a church. I think Sunday School has failed many, many churches and people. And I think parents need to play a greater part in spiritual development. But it would benefit everyone if the church figured out how to fix Sunday School and fix it quick. The Sunday Schools I've seen don't create room for doubt and tension. And while I think we need to be careful (on Dave Schmelzer/Scott Peck's stage theory, kids in High School probably benefit from a stage two ministry as much as I'd like them to receive a stage four ministry), but we could help people doubt well. To find God in the midst of doubting. To know how to read all of the things they'll read and receive all of the things they'll learn in a way that's life-giving, that challenges them to think deeply about what is ultimately true in the universe (which is different than teaching them to dismiss all critics of Christianity, most of whom have something we need to hear as a Christian institution).
I think doubts arise from incongruency. Go to Sunday School and come home and play Grand Theft Auto, and you've got a pretty clear sense that what we just learned clearly doesn't matter for the rest of our life. And if we address GTA (what I see most churches do), we miss the chance to address the truths about what God created (what I don't see most churches do), which would eventually spill out into your opinion about GTA. But GTA=bad does not help.
Chad
· 4 months ago
I'm a firm believer in having some sort of apologetic teaching in middle school and high school ministries. Youth groups need to stop playing games and get kids focused. Honestly, even being a kid I know that I would rather have a night being informed and in awe of God than playing dodgeball for two hours to "get kids excited about church".
But the church cannot be all to blame, Christian education begins in the family.
Nicole
· 4 months ago
As a youth minister I find your comment disturbing and out of touch. When I am "just playing games" with my youth I am building community by helping the youth feel comfortable and part of the group. We laugh together, so we having later serve our neighbor and learn about Christ. Sometimes this happens at the same event and sometimes it doesn't. Either way it is about building trust and community not the game. Moving our bodies can help us think.
All that being said. I think Sunday school needs to be rethought. I like what Faith Inkubators are doing.
Makella S
· 4 months ago
It's difficult because I look at my Sunday school teachings as a stepping stone into the faith that I have now, but I also have a family who has been discipling me and re-affirming everything I was learning at home. There are specific ways of doing it that are more effective than others obviously, but I think instilling those values young is important for the most part. I also agree that youth groups are important, and yes there needs to be teaching, but as far as the games... I know thats an outreach tool used. I know for a lot of teenagers, youth-group is a safe haven for them to go, serving to be more then a place to gain knowledge. I agree that Christian education in the family is important. (Replying to Chad)
All Comments
Going to church on Sunday = Being a Christian.
Putting my kids in Sunday School (or baptizing them as an infant, etc.) = They will go to heaven.
:-)
But seriously, it has come to largely from the pulpit -- from Pastors that are not concerned about speaking serious truth to their congregation even if it means 'insulting' some so much that they leave the church. James MacDonald said something in his study we just concluded that is so true. He said, "There's friction in truth." If you speak truth, some people are going to get upset.
I think we have a lot of churches across the country that are on fragile ground and the Pastors are concerned about 'rocking the boat' so they avoid those times when people need to be told, "Just because you come to church every Sunday does not mean you're going to spend eternity in Heaven."
Not everybody is going to be reached. Not everybody is going to listen. But that's to be expected. There will be those who of course, will listen. And there will be life change.
You are right on with this. I remember reading some research that funding in churches adults vs. children was 3:1, sometimes 5:1 in other churches. Yet, the research showed that churches that put the time and finances into well run children's programs had a higher retention rate of children in the long run.
The other piece of research (and I don't remember where these were from so forgive me if I am wrong) but the Church of England did research on why young people were not staying in church, the result? The Church of England doesn't believe in Sunday school programs. Generations grew up without any training and then did not want to follow a traditional pattern like their parents.
I agree that parents need to do a better job in discipling but many do not have the tools for these things and churches have not created good programs to come alongside parents to give them the tools. Add on overworked Sunday workers because people don't volunteer and you have a major problem across the board.
Good stuff.
Recognizing that many parents view Sunday school as the one time in the week when their kids learn about God, we knew we needed a change. Now, when parents show up on Sunday mornings they are given the lesson for the morning. The parents then teach their own kids in Sunday school and are supplied all the materials for it. Parents don't have to be a biblical scholar to teach these lessons, but if they really are not comfortable with it, they may sit with another family for a few weeks until they are comfortable.
The hope is that what happens in Sunday School every week will be a catalyst for parents to talk about and teach their kids more about Jesus throughout the week.
I'll let you know how it works out for us in 15 years when the kids are grown up...
I think doubts arise from incongruency. Go to Sunday School and come home and play Grand Theft Auto, and you've got a pretty clear sense that what we just learned clearly doesn't matter for the rest of our life. And if we address GTA (what I see most churches do), we miss the chance to address the truths about what God created (what I don't see most churches do), which would eventually spill out into your opinion about GTA. But GTA=bad does not help.
Youth groups need to stop playing games and get kids focused. Honestly, even being a kid I know that I would rather have a night being informed and in awe of God than playing dodgeball for two hours to "get kids excited about church".
But the church cannot be all to blame, Christian education begins in the family.
All that being said. I think Sunday school needs to be rethought. I like what Faith Inkubators are doing.