You've got some typos in your paragraph that starts "I cam across..."
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
Thank you, dear brother. Noted and fixed!
Dan Bryan
· 7 months ago
There was a related posted a few weeks ago on Soulpancake.com. Justin I know you're aware of this site, but for those of you who aren't it's a pretty fascinating discussion about spirituality that gets a lot of traffic from people all over the spectrum of faith in something to faith in nothing. Here's the link to the original post:
I'm not trying to be lazy, but here's my comment from that forum here as well, as I think the question is very related to Justin's. To set the context, they were using a Starbucks parody T-shirt (very similar to the 'faithbook' one above:
I think t-shirts like this raise greater questions about whether or not religion is something to profited from at all? In this instance you have the added issue of the fact that his 'art' is really only a parody, some might even call it a rip-off. I can appreciate the creativity to an extent - but if medium is just as valuable as message (if not more so) then what does it say if you have to rely on another message's medium to get yours across?
To add context, I am a religious person. I just struggle when our causes and messages about God become something to be bought and sold. It's inevitable that valuable things attract resource - and I'm ok with that. But stuff like this T-shirt is different. It cheapens the message by failing to create its own contextual artistic expression. The 'value' of this shirt is the fact that it captilizes on a very powerful brand - Starbucks (which has a legitimate value of its own). I follow the teachings of Jesus. I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Starbucks. I also think this T-shirt has pretty much nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
The best ideas in the world like truth, beauty, justice, and love can stand on their own - and good art can appeal to these without ripping off something else. So to examples like Jesus Saves T-shirts I just want to ask, come on, can't you do better?
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
"I follow the teachings of Jesus. I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Starbucks. I also think this T-shirt has pretty much nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus."
YES.
Starbucks is not bad, but Starbucks fails to convey the reality of Christ. As such, we should let Starbucks make coffee and Christians can concentrate on letting God breath his reality through us in new, beautiful, and scary ways!
You lay that smack down on the SP, my brother!
Evan Blackerby
· 7 months ago
If anyone likes typos... they can read my blog... I forgot to take English in HS.... thought it was an elective?
Anyway, great post! It's hilarious that you and I were thinking some of the same stuff. I promise I've had it on my list for a few weeks now! :-) Scouts honor. Pinky promise. I should share my list with you so we can see all the other possible cool matches in our heads.
I really had dug the Christian Ghetto post from Maurilio. Hit me hard. Faithbook is inexcusable.
Dan Bryan
· 7 months ago
P.S. I meant to mention that the reason I even mentioned the other site, was that it was interesting that on a page that is about spirituality in general and encompassing multiple religions, when this topic came up it was a Christian example that was used - I think that definitely supports what Justin is saying about Christians having a corner on the parody/rip-off art market when it comes to religious gear.
Tina Findlay
· 7 months ago
and let's not forget the one that says: Jesus died to secure 'MySpace' in heaven. not a good sign when you're in a so-called "Christian" store, and you must turn away from clerks in order to roll your eyes at these heavenly-minded knockoffs. in other words, i agree with your well-expressed thoughts once again... peace, tina
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
I almost put the 'MySpace" one up... It was as equally as heinous. Yeesh.
Ross_Hesseltine
· 7 months ago
i have always, and will always continue, to like these shirts! Mainly, because they are quite helpful in a getting a good laugh brewing from deep down. But they are well intentioned, these shirts could be easily worn by a person that is looking to start a conversation with his/her friends or classmates, coworkers, or complete strangers. What better way to start a conversation, then with a cheesy "pick-up" line..
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
Yes. This is a good reminder, my friend. If cheesy Christian t-shirts are the worst things we have to worry about, life is pretty good!
Susan
· 7 months ago
Forgive me but "faithbook" just sounds like someone's got a lisp. Go on...say it out loud...you'll see what I mean.
Phil Henry
· 7 months ago
Justin, thanks for this post. Susan: hilarious! Dan Bryan, good comment:
<quote> To add context, I am a religious person. I just struggle when our causes and messages about God become something to be bought and sold. ...this T-shirt is different. It cheapens the message by failing to create its own contextual artistic expression. <unquote>
Actually, it does create its own contextual artistic expression: "messages about God are something to be bought and sold."
If we are honest, however, as bad as aesthetes and design-ophiles find this kind of thing to be (it is very bad), we bring a certain amount of cultural snobbery to this discussion. There is something very simple about these "pick up lines" that don't work for people who read The New Yorker or Slate or listen to NPR, but that would work for people who come from a different socio-economic and cultural background.
So, as always, we must mind our idols of preference. Or, as I've heard it said, "All an Englishman's preferences are a matter of principle."
One other observation: Justin writes that Starbucks "fails to convey the reality of Christ." I'd modify this slightly: "...fails to communicate the total reality of Christ." I think it does communicate, in part, in portions, in micro, some aspects of the reality of Christ.
Justin, thanks again for your insights.
Susan
· 7 months ago
Now that I'm done being silly and have a bit more time to post, I want to say something about the Christian Ghetto as you've termed it Justin, and answer your query about having seen the mindset at work.
I once belonged to an online message board designed for Christian mothers. The purpose of the group is to encourage at-home motherhood and in a Christian setting. The problem was that some of the Christians (me included) just weren't Christian enough for some of the others. Those women had formed what I had termed at the time, a Christian Club (much like the Christian Ghetto, I believe though there was probably coffee served and donuts that everyone wanted to eat, but no one dared to eat because one might be seen eating a high calorie item in front of other women - a taboo!! But I digress...). The purpose of the Christian Club, in their minds, was to enlighten the unenlightened. The reality though was to shoot down anything that was not Christian enough (Catholics are not Christian enough, for example. Obama...not Christian enough, pretty much anyone who didn't think exactly like them was not Christian enough) and then all pat themselves on the back and smile and be happy that they had won a victory against the misguided ones.
It was...weird. And depressing. And ultimately I left the message board and sit here today, working on rebuilding my own relationship with God, which was severely damaged by being told over and over that I was doing it wrong, because I wasn't doing it like them. It's one of the reasons I deeply appreciate many of your posts about WHO God is and WHAT he's called us to do, namely to love His people just as they are and mind my own salvation because that's the one I am ultimately responsible for.
Anyway, while the shirts and the like are more on the silly side, there is a serious problem with that clique-y/club-y mindset. And it boils down to the message that's ultimately sent...I believe the women on that board truly felt they were correcting my "lack" in a loving and compassionate way. In reality, their words pushed me further out the door and made me think, if that's what it takes to be like them, I don't want to be like them at all.
And also...I think the song goes "They will know we are Christian by our love" not by our t-shirt.
Phillip Gibb
· 7 months ago
Clever shirt, some people might think that it is slightly cheesy but I reckon that it's clever, ha ha ha. Anyway - Social Media is about connections, about reaching out and being a part of something bigger? And Christianity is not? Hmmm. We as Christians should be leveraging the need to be connected in order to get people connected to Christ. Word :-)
All Comments
http://www.soulpancake.com/view_post/254251/wwjd-...
I'm not trying to be lazy, but here's my comment from that forum here as well, as I think the question is very related to Justin's. To set the context, they were using a Starbucks parody T-shirt (very similar to the 'faithbook' one above:
I think t-shirts like this raise greater questions about whether or not religion is something to profited from at all? In this instance you have the added issue of the fact that his 'art' is really only a parody, some might even call it a rip-off. I can appreciate the creativity to an extent - but if medium is just as valuable as message (if not more so) then what does it say if you have to rely on another message's medium to get yours across?
To add context, I am a religious person. I just struggle when our causes and messages about God become something to be bought and sold. It's inevitable that valuable things attract resource - and I'm ok with that. But stuff like this T-shirt is different. It cheapens the message by failing to create its own contextual artistic expression. The 'value' of this shirt is the fact that it captilizes on a very powerful brand - Starbucks (which has a legitimate value of its own). I follow the teachings of Jesus. I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Starbucks. I also think this T-shirt has pretty much nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
The best ideas in the world like truth, beauty, justice, and love can stand on their own - and good art can appeal to these without ripping off something else. So to examples like Jesus Saves T-shirts I just want to ask, come on, can't you do better?
YES.
Starbucks is not bad, but Starbucks fails to convey the reality of Christ. As such, we should let Starbucks make coffee and Christians can concentrate on letting God breath his reality through us in new, beautiful, and scary ways!
You lay that smack down on the SP, my brother!
Anyway, great post! It's hilarious that you and I were thinking some of the same stuff. I promise I've had it on my list for a few weeks now! :-) Scouts honor. Pinky promise. I should share my list with you so we can see all the other possible cool matches in our heads.
I really had dug the Christian Ghetto post from Maurilio. Hit me hard. Faithbook is inexcusable.
peace, tina
<quote> To add context, I am a religious person. I just struggle when our causes and messages about God become something to be bought and sold. ...this T-shirt is different. It cheapens the message by failing to create its own contextual artistic expression. <unquote>
Actually, it does create its own contextual artistic expression: "messages about God are something to be bought and sold."
If we are honest, however, as bad as aesthetes and design-ophiles find this kind of thing to be (it is very bad), we bring a certain amount of cultural snobbery to this discussion. There is something very simple about these "pick up lines" that don't work for people who read The New Yorker or Slate or listen to NPR, but that would work for people who come from a different socio-economic and cultural background.
So, as always, we must mind our idols of preference. Or, as I've heard it said, "All an Englishman's preferences are a matter of principle."
One other observation: Justin writes that Starbucks "fails to convey the reality of Christ." I'd modify this slightly: "...fails to communicate the total reality of Christ." I think it does communicate, in part, in portions, in micro, some aspects of the reality of Christ.
Justin, thanks again for your insights.
I once belonged to an online message board designed for Christian mothers. The purpose of the group is to encourage at-home motherhood and in a Christian setting. The problem was that some of the Christians (me included) just weren't Christian enough for some of the others. Those women had formed what I had termed at the time, a Christian Club (much like the Christian Ghetto, I believe though there was probably coffee served and donuts that everyone wanted to eat, but no one dared to eat because one might be seen eating a high calorie item in front of other women - a taboo!! But I digress...). The purpose of the Christian Club, in their minds, was to enlighten the unenlightened. The reality though was to shoot down anything that was not Christian enough (Catholics are not Christian enough, for example. Obama...not Christian enough, pretty much anyone who didn't think exactly like them was not Christian enough) and then all pat themselves on the back and smile and be happy that they had won a victory against the misguided ones.
It was...weird. And depressing. And ultimately I left the message board and sit here today, working on rebuilding my own relationship with God, which was severely damaged by being told over and over that I was doing it wrong, because I wasn't doing it like them. It's one of the reasons I deeply appreciate many of your posts about WHO God is and WHAT he's called us to do, namely to love His people just as they are and mind my own salvation because that's the one I am ultimately responsible for.
Anyway, while the shirts and the like are more on the silly side, there is a serious problem with that clique-y/club-y mindset. And it boils down to the message that's ultimately sent...I believe the women on that board truly felt they were correcting my "lack" in a loving and compassionate way. In reality, their words pushed me further out the door and made me think, if that's what it takes to be like them, I don't want to be like them at all.
And also...I think the song goes "They will know we are Christian by our love" not by our t-shirt.
Anyway - Social Media is about connections, about reaching out and being a part of something bigger? And Christianity is not? Hmmm. We as Christians should be leveraging the need to be connected in order to get people connected to Christ. Word :-)