Enjoyed your thoughts... for what it's worth though, I think most people love TiVO/DVR because it allows for time-shifted viewing. AKA, my life doesn't have to revolve around Mondays at 7 and Wednesdays at 8 anymore (and Thursdays at 8 too... eek).
Not that we ever don't fast-forward through commercials.
However, I think this raises a similar point to what you talked about here. People are going to become less interested in revolving their lives around other people's schedules, which of course will have huge implications for the church. Decentralizing will be part of this. I think people will still go when they want to (just as I prefer to watch Chuck & Lost live), but other options will be helpful when other things have to take a priority. Services on different nights, lots of different small group options (including some daytime and weekend ones), audio podcasts for sermons, online sanctuaries where people can get help, and tons of different entry points will all become necessities.
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
That's our biggest challenge as a church... Accommodating (yes, accommodate) to the lives of the people who make up our congregations as well as those who we are trying to reach.
This really is fascinating. I can't wait to see it pan out. If it's one thing that churches like, it's their cultural traditions. It will be interesting to see who adapts and changes and who locks on and digs their heels in.
Love your thoughts, Dave. PS - what is it about LOST and Chuck that make you want to tune in live?
Dave Sandell
· 7 months ago
Interesting question, given the implications for the church. I'm drawn to Lost & Chuck live because of two things:
1) They give me a ton of joy and I generally count them as my some of my very favorite ways to unwind, get caught up in a story and either laugh a lot and get really excited (Chuck) or go bonkers with theories, connecting dots and generally getting sucked further into the dense mythology (Lost). I find the story telling on those shows life-giving and energizing, and I don't have to turn off my brain like so much other television (this previously happened with The Wire & Arrested Development too). So I look forward to them, and knowing that there's new Lost & Chuck in existence that I haven't seen is thrilling and I want to inhale them as quickly as possible.
2) I want to be a part of the conversation, particularly on Twitter and some of the blogs that work through both of those shows. If I don't watch Lost live, I have to more or less stay off Twitter until I do watch it because spoilers are everywhere and that show can be ruined by even the smallest spoiler. With Chuck, I like connecting with other Chuck fans (#Chuck) because the people who love that show LOVE that show and seem to get drawn into intense feelings about other awesome things in the world to, so it's fun to track them down and be known by them as well.
So there's a felt punishment for getting behind on Lost, and there's a feeling that I'll get left out of something I want to be a part of if I'm behind on Chuck. And on the first point it's because of how wonderfully great they are to experience. Perhaps those could be three valuable metrics for a weekly church experience as well.
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
The experience... That's what I'm hearing from you. If you don't watch it live, you miss out on the communal aspect of the collective experience. That's huge.
For whatever reason, I don't see people interacting with church services the same way. What is the entertainment industry getting right that the church isn't?
Matt Harrell
· 7 months ago
Justin, this is great. This last comment about churches communicating in "online hubs" is EXACTLY what MemberHub.com (http://memberhub.com) is! I mean, is this just coincidence that you used that language :). It will be imperative for churches and ministries to have effective ways to communicate and get organized using online software. Not only are we bombarded by advertising, but Facebook is almost becoming information overload! It's like drinking from the firehose every time I go in there. Churches will need private, secure and established channels for their ministries and groups to communicate as well as the staff to the church. This is our mission at MemberHub. Create a hub for each each ministry and group at your church and empower every member of the body to get organized and communicate effectively. Thanks for this post!!!
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
I know! I re-read that this morning after our convo and I was a little blown away! I wrote that past over the weekend, so it clearly points to something that has been on my mind for some time.
Looks like our convo was more timely than I thought!
BobsYourUncle
· 7 months ago
I have no desire whatsoever to try to "time shift" God's day of rest. But I'm probably in the minority anymore, since most people seem to think that only living 6 out of 7 days for themselves isn't nearly enough, especially when the weather is nice. That must be the reason there is so much more room in the pews on nice summer Sundays. But until I hear otherwise from God, PodCasts of sermons don't count as spending a day worshiping God. I'll just stick with God's plan instead of trying to make my own. And I'll just keep enjoying the ability to stretch out a bit on nice summer Sundays while remembering Who provided the nice weather.
Justin Wise
· 7 months ago
Would it change your opinion to know that in the early church, the Sabbath was on a Saturday?
petey
· 7 months ago
Justin,
I think this sounds good, and it would be correct.... if all of our churches were made up of 0-40 year olds (and that may be generous).
What do you do when you have hundreds of 60+ year olds in a large, multi-generational church who don't use email and refuse to sign up for anything except in person or by the phone? Write 'em off? Ignore them?
It's also dangerous to ask "What is the entertainment industry getting right that the church isn't?" "Getting right" is a very dangerous phrase that can lead us places we don't want to go. I'm reminded of Francis Chan: "I don't need Jesus to grow a big church."
I think we need to be careful when we paint one way as the only way to do it right and the other way as backwards, antiquated, and worthless.
I'd love for our church to use only web-based services for communication. But why would we do something that alienates 30-40% of our congregation? That seems like arrogance and bad stewardship, if not agism.
Ben Cotten
· 7 months ago
I feel your frustration on this one. I think part of the answer is education. The harsh reality for those older members is that they are being left behind in a world that is becoming paperless and computer dependant. The city center is moving to an online space and if they don't move with it, they will be left out. That reality has nothing to do with the church and everything to do with our culture.
I think churches in your situation are uniquely positioned to help those people get their feet wet in online technology. Why not teach them how to use email, facebook, your church website, etc? Inform them about local libraries that offer free computer time and internet access. Better still, put together a few computers from parts donated from the church and set them up in your church building for them to use.
What I'm saying is, ignoring the tech in your church for fear of leaving the older generation out isn't the answer (I don't think). They are being left out no matter what you do. I think it's better to shepherd them in a way that equips them to better fit inside and outside the church.
We all know older people that discovered email and facebook for the first time and it liberated them. They get over the tech-phobia and end up feeling more connected with other people in their life more than ever.
Matt Harrell
· 7 months ago
Respectfully, Justin is talking about the 21st Century church. That includes the church of the future and what's next. I certainly am partial to using technology to communicate. I know there's an enormous amount of value in it. We certainly can't ignore those persons of the church that refuse to sign up for email and online services, but I believe the problem is that the benefits of using technology are not being fully explained and revealed. Not only this, we have to anticipate the needs and requirements of the future church and that's what Justin appears to be talking too. This is a challenging time that we find ourselves in. It appears to be a transition period where churches can be challenged to commit to technology in fear of alienating some folks. This will, in my opinion inevitably change. Of course the key to all effective communication is having multiple avenues and protocols. I'm glad Justin is bringing this stuff up in this community though!
John Arnold
· 7 months ago
From a practical standpoint I share Petey's concerns but also see the need to shift toward being decentralized, paperless and virtual. I am in a new call and some one referred to me as the first "technological" pastor they have had primarily because I have a blog, am on facebook and use the software keynote for a lot of my teaching.
As I seek to make communication transitions with my congregation, I think it's important not to get in an either/or mentality and recognize that many churches particularly old mainline church's have both younger and older members. Even as I write that I am hesitant to use those categories because some "older" members are some of my most faithful blog readers. Similarly, we have an email prayer list that goes out weekly and older members predominantly utilize that.
All of that said, churches effective in communication will recognize that they don't have a single homogenous audience but multiple audiences and will use repetition in multiple medias. I have a lot to learn and adapt to improve our communication, but I have noticed that when I repeat information orally, in print, and online, people finally start to get it.
Lastly, I find regardless of age, people in my congregation seem to unanimously like when we email out pastoral care updates. Nobody seems to be getting twitter yet. On my blog, perhaps because I have predominantly older members, I find that at least 80 percent of my subscribers opt for an email subscription rather than using an RSS feed. Given those sort of realities, I find that I have to not just make a technology available, but for it to be used I have to educate people or make it as easy as possible. I am often introducing them to something new. For those of us bathing in technology daily, I think that is important for us to remember that many people are not.
All Comments
Not that we ever don't fast-forward through commercials.
However, I think this raises a similar point to what you talked about here. People are going to become less interested in revolving their lives around other people's schedules, which of course will have huge implications for the church. Decentralizing will be part of this. I think people will still go when they want to (just as I prefer to watch Chuck & Lost live), but other options will be helpful when other things have to take a priority. Services on different nights, lots of different small group options (including some daytime and weekend ones), audio podcasts for sermons, online sanctuaries where people can get help, and tons of different entry points will all become necessities.
This really is fascinating. I can't wait to see it pan out. If it's one thing that churches like, it's their cultural traditions. It will be interesting to see who adapts and changes and who locks on and digs their heels in.
Love your thoughts, Dave. PS - what is it about LOST and Chuck that make you want to tune in live?
1) They give me a ton of joy and I generally count them as my some of my very favorite ways to unwind, get caught up in a story and either laugh a lot and get really excited (Chuck) or go bonkers with theories, connecting dots and generally getting sucked further into the dense mythology (Lost). I find the story telling on those shows life-giving and energizing, and I don't have to turn off my brain like so much other television (this previously happened with The Wire & Arrested Development too). So I look forward to them, and knowing that there's new Lost & Chuck in existence that I haven't seen is thrilling and I want to inhale them as quickly as possible.
2) I want to be a part of the conversation, particularly on Twitter and some of the blogs that work through both of those shows. If I don't watch Lost live, I have to more or less stay off Twitter until I do watch it because spoilers are everywhere and that show can be ruined by even the smallest spoiler. With Chuck, I like connecting with other Chuck fans (#Chuck) because the people who love that show LOVE that show and seem to get drawn into intense feelings about other awesome things in the world to, so it's fun to track them down and be known by them as well.
So there's a felt punishment for getting behind on Lost, and there's a feeling that I'll get left out of something I want to be a part of if I'm behind on Chuck. And on the first point it's because of how wonderfully great they are to experience. Perhaps those could be three valuable metrics for a weekly church experience as well.
For whatever reason, I don't see people interacting with church services the same way. What is the entertainment industry getting right that the church isn't?
Looks like our convo was more timely than I thought!
I think this sounds good, and it would be correct.... if all of our churches were made up of 0-40 year olds (and that may be generous).
What do you do when you have hundreds of 60+ year olds in a large, multi-generational church who don't use email and refuse to sign up for anything except in person or by the phone? Write 'em off? Ignore them?
It's also dangerous to ask "What is the entertainment industry getting right that the church isn't?" "Getting right" is a very dangerous phrase that can lead us places we don't want to go. I'm reminded of Francis Chan: "I don't need Jesus to grow a big church."
I think we need to be careful when we paint one way as the only way to do it right and the other way as backwards, antiquated, and worthless.
I'd love for our church to use only web-based services for communication. But why would we do something that alienates 30-40% of our congregation? That seems like arrogance and bad stewardship, if not agism.
I think churches in your situation are uniquely positioned to help those people get their feet wet in online technology. Why not teach them how to use email, facebook, your church website, etc? Inform them about local libraries that offer free computer time and internet access. Better still, put together a few computers from parts donated from the church and set them up in your church building for them to use.
What I'm saying is, ignoring the tech in your church for fear of leaving the older generation out isn't the answer (I don't think). They are being left out no matter what you do. I think it's better to shepherd them in a way that equips them to better fit inside and outside the church.
We all know older people that discovered email and facebook for the first time and it liberated them. They get over the tech-phobia and end up feeling more connected with other people in their life more than ever.
As I seek to make communication transitions with my congregation, I think it's important not to get in an either/or mentality and recognize that many churches particularly old mainline church's have both younger and older members. Even as I write that I am hesitant to use those categories because some "older" members are some of my most faithful blog readers. Similarly, we have an email prayer list that goes out weekly and older members predominantly utilize that.
All of that said, churches effective in communication will recognize that they don't have a single homogenous audience but multiple audiences and will use repetition in multiple medias. I have a lot to learn and adapt to improve our communication, but I have noticed that when I repeat information orally, in print, and online, people finally start to get it.
Lastly, I find regardless of age, people in my congregation seem to unanimously like when we email out pastoral care updates. Nobody seems to be getting twitter yet. On my blog, perhaps because I have predominantly older members, I find that at least 80 percent of my subscribers opt for an email subscription rather than using an RSS feed. Given those sort of realities, I find that I have to not just make a technology available, but for it to be used I have to educate people or make it as easy as possible. I am often introducing them to something new. For those of us bathing in technology daily, I think that is important for us to remember that many people are not.