i think you hit the nail on the head. it all has to do with sacrifice. if you're in it for yourself first and foremost, then yeah, you're doomed.
Jay
· 6 months ago
Since I've been married 14 years (June 10 was my anniversary) and happily I might add, there are several things that over the years that has allowed our marriage to work well (and this is despite the fact that I screw up a LOT and will continue to do so. It's a constant work in process):
1. Communication is vital - It sounds cliche, but it is true. If there's no communication then intimacy suffers. And when I say intimacy, I am not talking sexual. I am talking about the closeness a husband and wife should have.
2. Sometimes there is no fix - This one is geared more towards the guys. Sometimes our wives don't want a solution. They don't want you to fix something. They just want to talk and have somebody listen. No advice. If they want something like that, they'll ask.
3. Have alone time - As we go further in our lives, children, jobs, responsibilities, activities, etc. all increase. There needs to be those times when you just hang out together. It doesn't need to be days or a week. Even a few hours alone to enjoy each others company will help.
4. Always say "I love you." - If you truly do, then say it! And say it often!
There you have it. It sounds simple, but marriage isn't rocket science. It's working hard at the small things that often help the most.
dewde
· 6 months ago
Jay so totally nailed it. Especially with #2. Most of the time when my wife is having a stressful time and dumps all over me it is *not* because she wants a solution to the problem at hand. Being a good, empathetic listener IS THE SOLUTION.
When I ask myself, "Man that totally sucks for her! I want to fix it and make her feel better! What should I do?" The answer usually, "Shaddup and listen, stupid!"
In fact, her and I have this thing where I come right out and ask her. "Are you wanting me to fight for you? Or be a good listener?"
And then she tells me.
And then I do it.
peace|dewde 11 years and 2.5 kids
Christopher Pitts
· 6 months ago
It sounds like Sandra is just upset and frustrated because of her divorce. She probably can't believe that it was her fault, so it must be the institution as a whole.
I'm about to get married in a couple weeks and its hard for me to understand such a pessimistic view of marriage. People use the 50% divorce rate as a reason that marriage should be abandoned, but can't see the 50% that do stay together as a reason that marriage should be fought for.
Justin Wise
· 6 months ago
Best post of the day. Great thoughts! I'm with you on the successful 50%!
Sam Mahlstadt
· 6 months ago
I have been married for a whopping 3 1/2 months now, so I pretty much have all the answers. In our marriage, the biggest key has been knowing each other and learning to submit. For instance, when something is wrong, I chase my wife around and want to talk it out, now. She doesn't, she wants time and space before we discuss the issue. I am still learning to allow her the space she needs, but it is constant work, especially since I am hard headed, selfish and egotistical (shh...don't tell). It is a constant dying to self and putting the other first. I pray all the time for a strong marriage and a humble heart, which I think is also key - always life the other person up in prayer.
Justin Wise
· 6 months ago
I think mutual submission is the biggest success to a marriage. You chose wisely in what to share, Sam.
Susan
· 6 months ago
12 years married....
to go along with what Jay's already said, when my husband and I got married, we did it because we wanted to get married and spend our lives together. We DIDN'T get married as an excuse to have a big party and get a lot of nifty stuff for our house. Sadly, I think a lot of couples get caught up in the fun, the playing house aspect, and forget that it's not a game and it's supposed to be forever. Doesn't mean parties are bad or that marriage isn't fun...it's just not ALWAYS fun. And for some people, when it stops being fun, it's not so hard to get a divorce.
Also, it's helped us that we've had pretty similar goals and plans all along. We want the same things for the most part, we discuss dreams and plans for the future as well. We are in agreement about division of household chores. We did a lot of marriage prep through our church and we took the questions asked of us about what we expected in a marriage very seriously.
One other component, and I think this is a key, is that we have both maintained separate interests even though we're married. Because I don't think it's healthy to tie one's self up totally in another person. We are better together, because we can stand apart...we don't exist solely for the other. It's kind of a hard thing to articulate I guess, I hope you're understanding my meaning.
Justin Wise
· 6 months ago
Susan, thank as always for your wisdom!
Nate
· 6 months ago
In a culture that never takes responsibility for it's own actions, I see this as another way to justify divorce. It's no surprise to me that right before the segment ended, the host pointed out that she just went through a hard divorce because she had an affair. I'm not married, but don't think I have to be to make that point. I think this is just a case of someone who didn't want to make her marriage work, had a bad experience, and wrote a book trying to justify her actions. Then for whatever reason, the Today Show invited her on...haha...
There's been good advice posted on this blog! As someone who's "ring shopping," I appreciate all the advice I can use in the not-so-distant future...
jason kramme
· 6 months ago
here are some thoughts/conversation starters/rabbit trails:
1. What would it mean to order the marriage relationship around our relationship with God? 2. If God is where we derive our worth, value, identity, then what does that mean for our relationship with our spouse? 3. What does it mean/look like for a couple to be a "ministry team"? 4. Do/should the same pitfalls/problems apply to a Christian marriage as a secular marriage? 5. has anyone seen a "Christian marriage"? 6. My church will do your wedding in the space that we normally do a baptism. Would you do it? (its free). 7. What would we do with all that time, energy, and money if we didn't use it for the wedding? 8.
Christopher Pitts
· 6 months ago
4. Considering that the divorce rate for Christian Marriages is the same as secular marriages (if I've heard the facts correctly) then yes, they do face the same pitfalls. It makes sense that they do since we're all just human; we're all faced with the same emotions, influences, struggles. Its just a shame that Christians as a whole aren't able to step up and be the example that we should be.
7. A slight detour from your question, but I often wonder what people would do with their time/ energy and money if they didn't get divorced. Seems like many times a lot less resources could be spent if the couples would work on their marriage instead of tossing it.
jason kramme
· 6 months ago
4. As Christians, should we have the same "influences and struggles" as other people? Maybe the reason that we get divorced at the same rate is because we do--and we really shouldn't. I don't know as that I would say that a Christian marriage is the same as a non-Christian marriage--not apples to apples. One is a Christ-centered, voluntary covenant relationship meant to glorify God and the other is a contractual relationship meant to combine two financial entities.
Susan
· 6 months ago
Well, just like some people only commit to church on Christmas and Easter, some people don't take that vow thing really seriously. And of course, to be clear here, I am not speaking of people who are trapped in violent relationships, just people who got "bored."
martint501
· 5 months ago
Can't wait to get home and tell my wife that we have a contractual relationship and that she is only a financial entity to me. I guess my parents' contractual relationship of 46 years must have had some great financial reward...otherwise....I just can't...think...of...how...it...could...work....
Jason Kramme
· 5 months ago
I'm not sure why the concept of Christian marriage would apply to you and your wife if you are not Christian. A Christian marriage implies that the marriage is about your mutual faith in Jesus Christ. So, I guess there should always be a "Christian" qualifier before i say marriage. Sorry about that.
I didn't say anything about your relationship with your wife, or the way that you view/love her. What I did say is that that, if your relationship with her has nothing to do with your faith in Christ, then what you have is not a Christian Marriage. Its a state marriage (or whatever qualifier you want there). They are fundamentally different relationships. theists and non-theists, alike stay married for long periods of time because they love each other. That's not the issue, the issue is the motivation for that love and the purpose of the relationship.
martint501
· 5 months ago
Yes, that qualifier is important....even on a site that caters to Christians. They are really both state marriages, so that qualifier wouldn't really work either. I think everyone defines a marriage beyond that of a state contract...we didn't get married because we thought it would be cool to have a certificate from the state nor because we could get some sort of tax benefit. It is simply another way to express a deep commitment in front of our friends and family...the other stuff is a very tiny bonus.
Sam Mahlstadt
· 6 months ago
some great thoughts so far. perhaps the most profound I have read regarding marriage came from Rob Bell's book Sex God. He talks about the significance of the chuppah. Perhaps married folks need to get under and stay under the chuppah. I don't see the wedding ceremony as a waste of money, because it is the most significant miracle in a believer's life next to experiencing a relationship with Christ. It is a miracle, and the experience shouldn't be toned down because weddings have become a show, we just need to adjust our focus.
jason kramme
· 6 months ago
You're right. I wouldn't see it as a waste of money. I plan on having a wedding ceremony whenever I get married. But, the emphasis that we put on .0001% of our marriage is very unhealthy.
If the most important experience in our life is our relationship with Christ, then the second most important one should be our relationship with that of the non-believer, right? Go make disciples?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here, just so ya know.)
Susan
· 6 months ago
When I got married, my sister-in-law went on and on about the trappings and what we had to do for the reception. I mostly just did the "nod-and-smile" thing but then she said something about the party being what was the most important and I backed her truck right up real quick (which I normally don't do for the sake of family harmony). The part that happened in the church was the MOST important part. That was the cake if you will. The rest was just the icing and pink roses.
Don't get me wrong...I love icing and pink roses. But I'd still be just as married if we'd made our promises in shorts and t-shirts and headed off to McD's for a happy meal.
jason kramme
· 6 months ago
I guess that, at the end of the day, i think that divorce is a symptom of a larger problem rooted in mis-relationship with God (and God's love). If we are not willing to love someone like Jesus would, we shouldn't marry them. The reverse is true too: if we aren't willing to let someone love us like Jesus does, you are not ready to be married. I think its possible to be married to someone you shouldn't be married to. I blame the church for making people feel like they need to get married in the first place. If we had communities of peopel that loved like Jesus, I don't think that we would NEED to be married to so many of the wrong people. Jesus talks about the kingdom of God a whole lot more than he does marriage, and i think it was intentional.
Ross_Hesseltine
· 6 months ago
I think that if you were to go the many of the ceremonies around of the 50%, maybe, just maybe you would hear the words "for better or for worse...." and then have a reading from oh, let's say 1 Corinth. Now, could it be that, if the male and female standing up there actually listened to those words that were spoken, and those words that they said, and took them seriously--would the percentage be different?
And, to get a little political....Could the government impose stricter guidelines for divorce? Ya know, because anyone with $180 can go get a divorce. And if they could, would it always be storybook ending with Ashton and Cameron falling in love in "What Happens in Vegas"?
Elthe
· 6 months ago
Married 7 years.
Our ceremony had five people at it, including the rent-a-preacher. We exchanged mood rings. I wore an $8 dress. Those things aren't what makes our marriage strong.
Honesty and communication are the keys to making it work. Trust follows from those getting two things down. Don't let small annoyances become thorns in your side. Learn to distinguish between what's important and what you can let go. Be willing to compromise. Love without conditions.
Justin Wise
· 6 months ago
Bring it, Elthe. Welcome to BeDeviant.com!
Dave Sandell
· 6 months ago
Can't remember where I read or heard this, but found it profound... I think it's really easy to make a commitment based on what's happening right now, especially if what's happening right now is we're madly in love and passionate and happy. If you're committing to doing what's happening right now forever, that's not really a commitment. Things change, people change. We grow and become. So I committed to my wife that I would stay with her forever, regardless of what happened. That's a much harder commitment to make, but I find it much easier to keep, because if things go south, my options are changed to "stay south together" or "go north together". Two surprising cheers for limiting my options!
Justin Wise
· 6 months ago
David, your wisdom is delicious. I sop it up wit' a bizkit!
dewde
· 6 months ago
Go read Jay's answer, but here is my addition that I totally stole from my pastor Andy Stanley. It is really another way to say what Dave S. just said.
1. Be committed to your wife, not your marriage.
Andy said that he doesn't want his wife to be committed to "the marriage" because she can go out and find another "the marriage." He wants her to be committed to HIM.
All Comments
1. Communication is vital - It sounds cliche, but it is true. If there's no communication then intimacy suffers. And when I say intimacy, I am not talking sexual. I am talking about the closeness a husband and wife should have.
2. Sometimes there is no fix - This one is geared more towards the guys. Sometimes our wives don't want a solution. They don't want you to fix something. They just want to talk and have somebody listen. No advice. If they want something like that, they'll ask.
3. Have alone time - As we go further in our lives, children, jobs, responsibilities, activities, etc. all increase. There needs to be those times when you just hang out together. It doesn't need to be days or a week. Even a few hours alone to enjoy each others company will help.
4. Always say "I love you." - If you truly do, then say it! And say it often!
There you have it. It sounds simple, but marriage isn't rocket science. It's working hard at the small things that often help the most.
When I ask myself, "Man that totally sucks for her! I want to fix it and make her feel better! What should I do?" The answer usually, "Shaddup and listen, stupid!"
In fact, her and I have this thing where I come right out and ask her. "Are you wanting me to fight for you? Or be a good listener?"
And then she tells me.
And then I do it.
peace|dewde
11 years and 2.5 kids
I'm about to get married in a couple weeks and its hard for me to understand such a pessimistic view of marriage. People use the 50% divorce rate as a reason that marriage should be abandoned, but can't see the 50% that do stay together as a reason that marriage should be fought for.
to go along with what Jay's already said, when my husband and I got married, we did it because we wanted to get married and spend our lives together. We DIDN'T get married as an excuse to have a big party and get a lot of nifty stuff for our house. Sadly, I think a lot of couples get caught up in the fun, the playing house aspect, and forget that it's not a game and it's supposed to be forever. Doesn't mean parties are bad or that marriage isn't fun...it's just not ALWAYS fun. And for some people, when it stops being fun, it's not so hard to get a divorce.
Also, it's helped us that we've had pretty similar goals and plans all along. We want the same things for the most part, we discuss dreams and plans for the future as well. We are in agreement about division of household chores. We did a lot of marriage prep through our church and we took the questions asked of us about what we expected in a marriage very seriously.
One other component, and I think this is a key, is that we have both maintained separate interests even though we're married. Because I don't think it's healthy to tie one's self up totally in another person. We are better together, because we can stand apart...we don't exist solely for the other. It's kind of a hard thing to articulate I guess, I hope you're understanding my meaning.
There's been good advice posted on this blog! As someone who's "ring shopping," I appreciate all the advice I can use in the not-so-distant future...
1. What would it mean to order the marriage relationship around our relationship with God?
2. If God is where we derive our worth, value, identity, then what does that mean for our relationship with our spouse?
3. What does it mean/look like for a couple to be a "ministry team"?
4. Do/should the same pitfalls/problems apply to a Christian marriage as a secular marriage?
5. has anyone seen a "Christian marriage"?
6. My church will do your wedding in the space that we normally do a baptism. Would you do it? (its free).
7. What would we do with all that time, energy, and money if we didn't use it for the wedding?
8.
7. A slight detour from your question, but I often wonder what people would do with their time/ energy and money if they didn't get divorced. Seems like many times a lot less resources could be spent if the couples would work on their marriage instead of tossing it.
I didn't say anything about your relationship with your wife, or the way that you view/love her. What I did say is that that, if your relationship with her has nothing to do with your faith in Christ, then what you have is not a Christian Marriage. Its a state marriage (or whatever qualifier you want there). They are fundamentally different relationships. theists and non-theists, alike stay married for long periods of time because they love each other. That's not the issue, the issue is the motivation for that love and the purpose of the relationship.
I don't see the wedding ceremony as a waste of money, because it is the most significant miracle in a believer's life next to experiencing a relationship with Christ. It is a miracle, and the experience shouldn't be toned down because weddings have become a show, we just need to adjust our focus.
If the most important experience in our life is our relationship with Christ, then the second most important one should be our relationship with that of the non-believer, right? Go make disciples?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here, just so ya know.)
Don't get me wrong...I love icing and pink roses. But I'd still be just as married if we'd made our promises in shorts and t-shirts and headed off to McD's for a happy meal.
And, to get a little political....Could the government impose stricter guidelines for divorce? Ya know, because anyone with $180 can go get a divorce. And if they could, would it always be storybook ending with Ashton and Cameron falling in love in "What Happens in Vegas"?
Our ceremony had five people at it, including the rent-a-preacher. We exchanged mood rings. I wore an $8 dress. Those things aren't what makes our marriage strong.
Honesty and communication are the keys to making it work. Trust follows from those getting two things down. Don't let small annoyances become thorns in your side. Learn to distinguish between what's important and what you can let go. Be willing to compromise. Love without conditions.
1. Be committed to your wife, not your marriage.
Andy said that he doesn't want his wife to be committed to "the marriage" because she can go out and find another "the marriage." He wants her to be committed to HIM.
peace|dewde